Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:47 PM
The announcement two months ago, that a political party for pedophiles had been established in the Netherlands was unbelievable. And I do hope that The World realises that the Dutch are just as stunned and angry as anyone about this. This has nothing whatsoever to do with our so-called tolerance and open culture. In fact, a support group for abuse victims tried to get the party legally banned, which, regrettably, failed.
Now that early elections have been announced for November 22nd, the Paedoparty is back in the news. NRC has an interview with one of the founders, and it actually contained some good news in the first half: the party needs €11.250 to participate in the elections and most likely will not be able to obtain that kind of money from sponsors.
Excellent.
The next part of the interview made me physically sick. They list some of the goals of the party, which range from the bizarre to the criminally insane.
They want to allow discrimination, except by the government. For example; an employer must be able to decide who he wants to work with. if he likes to work with women, he should be allowed to hire a hundred of them. I am a bit puzzled here. What would the benefit of this be exactly? They also want hardcore porn on daytime television. They want to show it all, rape, beheadings (wtf kind of porn is that?), and call it freedom to form an opinion. So, kids come home from school, they put on the telly so they can form an opinion on gang bangs? I don't know, maybe you need a psychiatry degree to make sense of this hogwash. And then there is this one point:
Children are allowed to have sexual contact from the age of twelve [...] In the future we would like to abolish the age limit completely, but for these elections we will not aim for below twelve. Society is not ready for that.
Charming, how they formulate it, like somebody is finally doing something for the kids.
Right. This is not about society. It is not about age difference. If you can't see that, do yourself a favour and get help.
Now.
This is about children who are not ready, mentally or physically, for a sexual relationship with adults. In such a relationship they will not be in a position to determine what they want; they are not in control. They can not consent like adults can. Why can't these people see that a relationship between a child and an adult is never, ever, on equal terms?
The fact that they are (willfully) oblivious to the difference between children and adults, suggests to me that there is something seriously wrong with their mental facilities.
These people are so far removed from reality, it would be laughable, if their ideas weren't so sick.
Feedback
# re: Raving lunacy continues
7/31/2006 9:51 AM by
First off, I want to make clear I abhor the ideas of this party, and active paedophiles should be arrested and thrown into psychiatric prisons.
But...
I might not agree with their ideas (couldn't disagree more, actually), I do believe in their right to express their opinion. Isn't democracy the right to tell people the things they don't want to hear? Start banning parties because we don't agree with its ideas and where will it end? Will we ban the Christian parties? what about the socialists? I don't agree with their ideas either.
Of course, I'm quite happy they'll probably never get the money they need to run in the elections, not the required 500-some autographs. A few days ago I wondered, aren't the television ads parties make before the elections partly paid for by the government? That would be quite a riot if people knew their tax-euro's went to making promo's for the paedo-party.
I agree, their idea's border on the criminally insane, and in some cases cross that border big time, still, it boils down to how much we value our freedom and our democratic rights. We have to allow for people to express ideas we hate.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
7/31/2006 11:38 AM by
I know you are right of course, freedom of expression is essential to our democracy. This post is an emotional reaction, also because if you think about it, they stand no chance of achieving their goals, even if they get their money, their 500 signatures, they will never get more than one seat in parliament (gah, if that happens the EU will tell *us* to leave the community). So they don't have to be banned to be stopped.
But I do find it very hard to uphold the ideal of freedom of expression in this case. Especially the way they portray themselves as victims because they are ostracised? I can't even begin to imagine what an insult that must be to people who have been victims of abuse.
Another thing, forming a political party based on these ideas is, imo, more than just expression of ideas, it intends action in the shape of legislation as well. Somehow, I have less of a problem for example with their support group Martijn.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
7/31/2006 2:54 PM by
It is difficult not to respond with just primitive urges to kill them, I know. I saw an interview with one of those guys and I physically got a rash.
A lot of people find it hard to understand, but I think paedophiles are really sad people. At least if you're gay or some extreme rubber-fetishist or something, you have a chance of finding someone to share your sexuality with. Paedophiles must live very, very lonely lives. No one to talk to, because you'll get fired and threatened if your prefrences get known. (probably you're house will get fire-bombed) Even your porn of choice is illegal. But the taboo on child-abuse is so great (understandably so) that it's even frowned upon to empathize with paedophiles. Just ignoring them or repressing them won't make them go away. We must not forget that there's a difference between a passive paedophile who struggles with his situation for his entire life, and an active child-abuser (who deserve long long jail times)
Of course, I can fully understand a parent killing the paedophile who abused his child, too.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
7/31/2006 5:45 PM by
I think almost everyone has met a friendly (but in a weird way) teacher or other adult during childhood. Most of those encounters are relatively harmless.
In my old high school for example there was a male Gym teacher who would walk into the girls' showers to *cough* check whether they were showering. Needless to say no girl ever showered again at school after hearing that :) We should have reported it I guess, but clueless/embarrassed as we were, we didn't.
However, and this was much later, the guy did get fired because he wasn't able to keep his hands to himself anymore.
It would be a good idea to lift the stigma a little, so that people who have these feelings will be able to get help sooner, so they don't put themselves in situations where they will lose control.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
7/31/2006 11:02 PM by
Precisely, and I think that is the main goal of this party; lift the stigma a little, so these people can at least come out without people forming a mob and torching their caravans (preferably with them in it). Throwing stones won't make paedophilia go away, it just makes paedophilis hide deeper where their troubled psyches can fester.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
8/1/2006 12:01 AM by
But in that case they should have limited themselves to the activities of a support group like Martijn (not that I am very familiar with them), in stead of making crazy suggestions in their party program like lowering the age of consent to 12. By doing that they have made it impossible for anyone to empathise with their situation. All that they have succeeded in now, is make life even more difficult for themselves. Surely they could have seen this coming?
# re: Raving lunacy continues
8/1/2006 8:19 AM by
True, they seem to have shot themselves in the foot a bit, but at least people are talking about it, even if most of it is in yelling or death threats.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
8/9/2006 10:55 PM by
As a responding reader I do agree with Marduk.
At the same time we are dealing with a generation of very premature acting children, sexually speaking. Is a lot of the current uproar about possible sexual relations between adults and kids in fact not born from shame about our own inability to guide our children well ?
And I might add that as late as in the sixties, the phenomenon of dirty old men (for the most part) who actually engaged in fondling kids was very well known, without the raving panic that is streaking now.... This is telling us something.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
8/10/2006 1:08 PM by
That may also have to do with some naiveté in the sixties, lack of awareness that some dirty old men do more than fondling and that it can damage a child into adulthood. Otoh there was such a big taboo on sexuality that a lot of wrongs were covered up and just not talked about.
Now we suffer perhaps of too much knowledge (*every* single case gets news coverage) and we have a desire to be protected from every bad thing, beyond reason. You can see the results clearly in the US where (any) physical contact with children is fast becoming a taboo.
I don't think this uproar has to do with how premature the kids act today. They way they act is mainly among peers. The power difference between them and adults is still present, all the more so in younger kids, and that rather than sex or whatever is the issue with pedophilia.
My post was emotional, and rationally speaking, I agree that the judge made a good decision (it pains me though). But I still think that if they want more understanding, they are going about it the wrong way.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
8/1/2008 1:45 PM by
thanks for elaborating this is truly get your point.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
1/5/2009 9:24 AM by
# re: Raving lunacy continues
1/26/2009 3:57 AM by
thanks
# re: Raving lunacy continues
1/29/2009 3:45 AM by
that is a good one
# re: Raving lunacy continues
2/9/2009 1:38 AM by
this is nice..
# re: Raving lunacy continues
2/23/2009 5:18 PM by
i have to agree with this
# re: Raving lunacy continues
3/16/2009 10:05 PM by
# re: Raving lunacy continues
9/3/2009 5:14 PM by
# sohbet
10/10/2009 7:35 PM by
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:46 PM by
okey oyna
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:46 PM by
film izle
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:47 PM by
okey oyna
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:47 PM by
okey oyna
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:48 PM by
ceysu
# re: Raving lunacy continues
10/18/2009 5:48 PM by
okey oyna
# re: Raving lunacy continues
11/24/2009 4:25 AM by
I agree, their idea's border on the criminally insane, and in some cases cross that border big time, still, it boils down to how much we value our freedom and our democratic rights.
# re: Raving lunacy continues
12/8/2010 4:24 PM by